Hmmm...
Not sure Spike enjoyed the cross all that much, except for the part that it was what Buffy wanted.

Nah, he didn't enjoy it. I actually really wasn't intending to write anything more of this, but while I was working on another ficlet this continuation just grabbed me by the (figurative) balls and muscled its way onto the page. I'm not even sure this is what I had in mind when I was thinking about their after-encounter the other night. This was what came out, regardless.

Writing is weird. Sometimes it's very much what you intend and other times you just don't know where it comes from, like possession. I will admit, when you just get swept along by an idea and don't have to think about it too much, it's a lot easier!

great googly moogly how I love the Spuffy darkness! And mmmmm you deliver just right. Love the line about helping her breathe.

*pats the co-dependent vampire*
mmmm sexy.

*cackles with glee* Suffer! Suffer! Glad I could get you there with this one. It's darker than I usually go, but circumstances called for it. Buffy's bad emotional state = Buffy's kinktastic, anger-fueled fuck fest.

Spike really is rather misguided. He has no idea how to help, so he just grasps at straws. Poor boy means well though.

Their wild dancing has him screaming, too, as his skin singes, the iron-hot sting of the cross on her neck sending smoke signals up from his chest like an S.O.S.
I love that visual, I think it defines the entire encounter.

When she frames them with her teed and crossed fingers, her eyelids open and close like a camera shutter. It’s another memory.
And that too! It's very much a reminder that these moments are brief in the grand scheme of their relationship.

Violent and sad, and so very hot!

I love that visual, I think it defines the entire encounter.
Me, too. I love going wild with the figurative language and symbolism and this really gets to the heart of it. She's wearing the cross because she wants to make Spike see what she's going through. It's a cry for help, as twisted as it is. And it's a cry she only lets Spike hear (and feel).

Glad you liked it. It's been awhile since I got to write a serious sex scene. My fave! *licks lips*

Buffy is in a very dark place. Spike doesn't seem to be pushing her there. He seems to want to help her heal, but she is determined to burn her pain out of her system. She keeps upping the stakes to see how much she can survive. Is she searching for a breaking point?

Is she searching for a breaking point?
I'm not really sure. Except for the couple of sex scenes we get throughout Season 6, it's hard to tell if Spike and she were engaging in high risk sexual practices. When I first was thinking about this ficlet, I thought that Buffy might try and goad Spike into rollplaying with her, pretending to be as viscous as he used to be. But here the sense that I get is that Buffy mentally fabricates a lot of her obstacles and pain and systematically tears herself down. It's a hell of her own making. She tells Tara "not to forgive her" and this is Buffy's way of punishing herself for her own perceived wrong-doing, which she only perpetuates by being with Spike. A pretty vicious cycle overall. Sometimes I get caught up trying to figure Buffy out myself.

Do you think she had a breaking point on the show?

You write an excellent Buffy right on the edge. Good stuff.

Thank you! She's really hanging by a thread here.

Appropriate, that, he thinks.

Indeed! Beautiful, painful picture here, and so vivid--Spike trying, in his midguided way, to help, and Buffy wanting only to hurt/be hurt.

Perfect icon! *gives you a cookie* How do you always do that?

Spike trying, in his midguided way, to help, and Buffy wanting only to hurt/be hurt.
They are rather tragic here, it's true. Glad you thought Spike was a bit misguided, too. He doesn't really understand how to make Buffy better and by giving in to her whims he only enables her further by not helpling her break the cycle. She's stuck on this loop and he's got to knock her out of it. Magical Cock of Healing aside, he's gotta think outside the soulless box.

What a pair...She hurts him seeking some kind of relief and then wants him to hurt her. He will do anything for her - even hurt her.

The violence and pain spiral around them with no purpose.

The violence and pain spiral around them with no purpose.
This really goes to show just how out of control they are and how ill-equipped and misguided Spike is in believing he's helping her. The sex is just an escape. It doesn't get to the root of the problem, but by allowing Buffy to cintinue on with him, it only perpetuates her own cycle of self-loathing. Buffy is beyond fucked up here. She really could have done with some intense therapy.

Very cool ficlet! Loved how you caught, how messed up Buffy and Spike's thing in S6 is. How he jsut wants to make it better, to make her feel alive. And she does but in the end through pain.

Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it. They are a truly tragic pair in this ficlet. Spike has good intentions, but he's incredibly ill-equipped to know how to help her. Buffy's ability to connect with the world seems to only be effective if it's mediated through the tactile - pain being a big component of that. It seems so counter-intuitive though. She escapes the pain through pain? Wtf, Buffy?

Wow, beautifully done as usual.

Now the question is will it hurt Spike to give her what she's asking for?

I must admit the Heimlich part made me giggle, but that's only because of Eddie Izzard :P

Now the question is will it hurt Spike to give her what she's asking for?
Well, we know that he has the ability to her hurt. So, the chip certainly won't go off. If you're asking if hurting her will hurt him emotionally, than the answer is probably. Still, when you're the one dishing out the pain, you have the control. I'm unclear here myself is Buffy's wants to truly be hurt or if she craves an S&M type of scenario that's painful, but that she ultimately derives some sexual pleasure from. If that's the case and doesn't want just a beating (which I don't think Spike would agree to), Spike's probably got a fair amount of experience in the pleasure/pain department. Spending a century with Dru must have given him quite a few skills. In which case, Spike is the best partner to give Buffy what she thinks she wants.

I must admit the Heimlich part made me giggle, but that's only because of Eddie Izzard :P
I'm not familiar with what routine of his has the Heimlich. Is there a link from youtube you could direct me to that maybe has his stand-up?

Huzzahs! I love how dark and alluring, the relationship between Spike and Buffy was. Just all the darkness, the pain, just to try to forget everything. Its just so unbelievably smoking hot. Its like Buffy burns for him..and can't stay away and vice versa.

God, when is the last time I wrote fanfic..in quite a while..

I love Spuffy's dark allure, as well. As a fan of angst, they really are a great couple to tackle. The possibilities are endless. The hot-factor certainly doesn't hurt either ;)

Thanks for reading and commenting!

This is so beautifully dark and achy and...just hell.

You do desperate well, which is why Spuffy really aches true in your hands.

Very glad to hear it met with the Snowy seal of approval. This is a little darker than I usually go, but it was an idea that snagged me and just wouldn't let go.

You do desperate well, which is why Spuffy really aches true in your hands.
*bows* A wonderful compliment from a wonderful talent and non-Spuffy shipper. It's interesting you say that. My beta commented after reading this ficlet that she thought my best character is actually depressed!Buffy. She had recently read my first two Spuffy stories evah, which also deal with a S6 depressed Buffy and felt I really get her whole mindset. That fucking thrills me because Buffy can be really tough to get. You know, with being sort of a nutjob in many ways.

On an unrelated note - Eliza boobies! *grabs*

If he pumps hard enough and in the right rhythm he can dislodge what’s been suffocating her, choking her into paralysis.

Yes. He spent their entire sexual relationship trying to do this.

He spent their entire sexual relationship trying to do this.
With limited success, I might add. Although, if you take the sentence more figuratively, Spike's able to pull her up in times of depression that reach beyond their physical relationship, like in "Touched."

Holy Aleister Crowley, that was dark, Batman.

Loved it.

LOL. Cute comment. And it certainly is dark. I'm glad that you enjoyed it!

Oh BOY!

Whoof! Both this and The Cross, such a deep view of Buffy's torturing of herself and Spike at this time. O my gods, excellent!

And I love that he rocks her, sooths her... beautifully Spike.

So so glad I had the chance to read this. WOW

Glad you enjoyed it, hun. Buffy's mental state in these ficlets is really in the shitter. It was great going so deep and seeing what I could find. When I compare this to my old S6 Spuffy fics (except for maybe Why Won't You Go), I think I capture her much more accurately here than I did a year and a half ago. Which, yay! Progress.

Sometimes I think I write Spike a little soft, but his acceptance of her behavior here seems right. He doesn't push her, doesn't ask, doesn't judge. He just lets her be and does what he can to insert some gentleness into their encounter. What I really wanted to get across is how tragic Buffy is. She does these destructive things, but I want to explore why. She has so much hurt to carry around with her. It's enough to just call her a "bitch" and be done with it. And while Spike is our comforting hero, he also is misguided and really doesn't get it. They're both so human, so fallible our heroes.

You know, i'm sorry for going on like this. I really am, like, the wordiest bastard when it comes to responding to reviews. This just accured to me, lol.

Loved it! Very intense and so very Spuffy.

I loved this part: He figures it’s like the Heimlich maneuver. If he pumps hard enough and in the right rhythm he can dislodge what’s been suffocating her, choking her into paralysis. He wants to help her breathe. He already lost her once.


What a great insight to what was going on between them.

Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed it. It seems that the line about the Heimlich maneuver resonated with a lot of people. That's always very gratifying to hear when something you write (even if it's one line) seems to universally touch readers.

BTW, I did end up posting at BSV, so we'll see what the response is.

Excellent - glad that you did this second part - it goes perfectly with first. I love the opening lines as well as the SOS lines.

Wonderful - pain filled - Buffy and Spike.

Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Heh, the SOS and Heimlich lines seemed to go over quite well. They are two of my favorites.

Excellent - glad that you did this second part - it goes perfectly with first.
That's great to hear. I really wasn't planning on writing a Part II, but people were curious and I was thinking about it. It just wrote itself. I wanted to keep the mood consistant, and I think I was able to do that even though it's told from Spike's POV. He's in the dark about what's truly going on with Buffy, but we as the readers have that extra insight.

Wow. *is in awe, once again* This is so very powerful. So dark, so beautiful, so utterly insightful. Every word cutting deep, making it real, making it hurt in the most delightful way. It's chillingly cold and steamingly hot at the same time. It's simply wonderful, amazing – no, the word is perfect, actually, and I love love love it in so many ways.

I think you've done absolutely masterful job capturing the very essence of Season 6 Spuffy with this piece. This is them, our Buffy and Spike as fucked-up and dysfunctional as ever coming together (in both senses of the phrase) hard and heavy. But it's only their bodies that connect here. I think that's the whole point as far as Buffy's concerned. Being so consumed by physical sensations that everything else fades away. She goes to Spike not just to feel, but to escape and that's what I think that Spike's not really getting. He might understand her pain like no one else, see how she's all broken and torn inside, but he doesn't understand the why part. He just doesn't seem to get the mechanics of self-hatred and guilt. He wants to help her, but ends up doing it all wrong much often than right because even though he can see that she's drowning he doesn't understand what it is that's suffocating her. My God how my heart's bleeding for both of them!

Like so many others I absolutely adore the Heimlich maneuver paragraph. It must be one of the most beautifully written things I've ever read. But then again I could say the same for the rest of this fic, so maybe I should've just said that. Above all else I love this fic as a whole.

The ending just totally floored me. Wow, absolutely wonderful! But not for them obviously. I think that in asking him to hurt her she's asking him to do something that'll hurt him just as well - just in a different way. But she needs the hurting. She needs to hurt and to be hurt. She doesn't want forgiveness but punishment. It's not right and it shouldn't be so, but I know that sometimes pain seems to be the only thing that makes sense – the only thing that'll give you a sense of peace even if it'll only last for a second. And yet the fact remains that pain doesn't work and the relief you get from it is a lie. You just can't punish the shame and the guilt out of yourself no matter how hard you try.

I think that the fact that Buffy goes to Spike with this need of hers speaks volumes about her survival instincts. Because when she asks him to hurt her – instead of hurting herself – she's safe. With another party involved there are rules to the hurting. She knows he'll hurt her just enough, whereas, if she'd really start hurting herself, I think she'd hurt hurt hurt until there'd be nothing left to bruise. All the abuse, violence, hatred, despise – whatever you call it – that she laid on him she would've laid on herself if he hadn't been there. (That's what I did, anyway.) And I've always thought that he understood this. That, while not fully getting the reasons behind her self-destructive behavior and on top of that lacking the means to help her to stop needing the hurting, he kept her from destroying herself completely by letting her release herself on him. By taking it all – and he really was the only one physically strong enough to really take it. It sure wasn't pretty and it did horrible things to both of them, but I always thought that there was some deep understanding going on in there. At least until the end of As You Were and there on, but then again that's the point after which I sort of lost my understanding over what the writers were trying to say.

Thank you so much for sharing this utter fantasticness with us!

*smiles* You're going to give me a complex with all the praise you heap on me. But, as always, i'm delighted that you liked this. It demanded that I write it, and those fics tend to be the good ones. The ones you don't plan, but just are.

I think you've done absolutely masterful job capturing the very essence of Season 6 Spuffy with this piece.
Thank you. My beta and I were discussing my Spuffy work and I think if you compare this piece to my earliest ones (except for maybe Why Won't You Go?), I'm much truer to the characters here. As we grow as writer's (and as people) I think our understanding of relationships change. You get some perspective.

I think that's the whole point as far as Buffy's concerned. Being so consumed by physical sensations that everything else fades away.
Yup. I think you've nailed it. Earlier today, I was re-reading a Spuffy fic that I never posted. It's very similar to this fic in terms of where Buffy is in her mindset. It's stated a bit more explicitely in that story how she perceives Spike as the one who takes away the pain and how it enrages her when he can't. I wonder if I should post it. It's pretty unabashedly self-indulgent porn. As I recall, my beta said that it was more my fantasy of sex games than what Buffy and Spike might really get up to.

Like so many others I absolutely adore the Heimlich maneuver paragraph.
It does seem to be the stand-out paragraph for many people. That's great. I always do like to work in a "money-shot" line.

And yet the fact remains that pain doesn't work and the relief you get from it is a lie.
Absolutely. That's why the sex with Spike is a viscious cycle. She looks for relief. She gets her reflief and then it all comes rushing back to her. There's no sure fix and that's what kills her. That Spike can't fix her. It's what kills him, too.

Because when she asks him to hurt her – instead of hurting herself – she's safe. With another party involved there are rules to the hurting.
I 100% argee with you here. In As You Were Buffy asks him to tell her he loves her. She knows that she's safe in Spike's hands. Hell, her mother and sister were safe in his hands, too. She can lie to herself, but she can't lie to us. She did trust him. She trusted him with her family and her own life. And, I think, he never let her down, except during the attempted rape, which was super bullshit to the 1000th degree to begin with.

he kept her from destroying herself completely by letting her release herself on him.
Spike's no fool. I think he gets part of it, if not the whole picture. Your point here is definately illustrated when Spike tells her to "Put it all on me" in Dead Things.

Thanks again for the wonderful analysis. It's fantastic to see everyone revisiting this time and really putting a lot of thought into what we saw on the show. I'm so lucky to have such a perceptive readership!

you were right--these are totally my kind of thing.

i think because i like blurry lines. when you read and you have to squint and turn your head a little to try to suss out how a character is feeling--not because of any shotcoming on the part of the author, but because the characters themselves are doing the same thing, grappling in the dark, trying to figure it out. it's such a reality-driven experience. so seldom are things tidy in real life. we are confused creatures, unsure of what we want and need, going forward on an urge or an instinct with no real grounds as to how it'll all shake down for us in the end.

just a gut feeling.

buffy is such a stuck little girl. she just wants to make something move. so she does these things just to see, is she in a different place afterwards? even just by a few inches? and the concepts of forward and backward have lost all meaning. it's just a matter of anyplace but here.

i love reading this, and the prologue, and feeling like they are grounded pieces of writing (they are), and yet we don't know really at the end if things are better, worse, static, if there is any impact, any crack in buffy's prison wall, if spike loves her more or less, if he's hurting, if he's just accepted this, if he feels like jesus christ sacrificing flesh and sustaining torture to save her, to try.

this idea, though, of buffy wanting to try pain--and not just any old pain, but a pain the mimics somethings she's inflicted on both her demon lovers, pain earmarked for demons, is so big and deep and sorrowful and makes so much sense. it works so well in contrast with the first installment of this story, where she remembers the girl she used to be, the girl who'd received the cross and worn it as a symbol of who she was.

she took that path, all the way to the end. and then she died. and then she was brought back and put into a crossroads and just left to figure it out.

now she needs to see how far this path goes.

very nice, l. i enjoyed these very much.

Edited at 2008-11-22 02:53 pm (UTC)

You are awesome! *humps your brain & Sammy* Great, great feedback. I think you really expressed what I was going for with Buffy - the uncertainty, the floundering stumble, how she blindly grasps at any straw she can because she has no idea how to shake this thing. She medicates uses process of elimination, and it just resets itself after every encounter. I tried to do a lot of set-up for that mentality in the Bangel fic. As in, paving the way to the road she takes with Spike.

yet we don't know really at the end if things are better, worse, static, if there is any impact
*nods* I enjoy the ambiguity, as well. If you were to ask me, I have no idea how this encounter continues or shakes out. So many things could happen, inumerable possibilties of movement. It's really up to the reader and I think a lot of people got that, since this ficlet seemed to generate a lot of characterization discussion in the comments. It's a gristley sort of ficlet, one you have to chew on and think about.

this idea, though, of buffy wanting to try pain--and not just any old pain, but a pain that mimics somethings she's inflicted on both her demon lovers, pain earmarked for demons, is so big and deep and sorrowful and makes so much sense.
I love this, how you summarized why this ficlet is so hard to read. Even though Buffy, ultimately, does get better come Season 7, I don't think she ever gives this up, the idea that she is a demon. She is at once better than them and as bad as they are, maybe even worse since she's supposed to be so good and sinks so incredibly low. I can't imagine how this all must look to Spike, who really doesn't understand self-loathing at this point. This Buffy is so tragic, and yet I think she's one of my favorite Buffy's I've ever written because she's so fallable and has so much to conquer.

Thanks so much for reading this. Comments like yours make me think and think and think. I love it and I use it when I go forward on other stories. *muah*

Guh.... and I don't ship B/S. That was amazing. Thank you!

Hee. I like this one myself. Lots and lots of angst for these two. And it's always a wonderful compliment when something rings true for a non-shipper. I try depict all the couples I write as truthfully as I can. Thanks for reading!